One of the main points that the translation agency owner made is that she has a hard time determining who is legitimate as a translator, and who is not legitimate. A valid point. I kind of made a bit of fun out of the whole thing, but she has a very good point, and I imagine that this is a problem for agencies. I suggested that she just hit Delete to any suspect mail, which is actually the way most companies deal with spam mail or anything that looks like it. I mean, think about it, when you get a mail that doesn't look "probably" legitimate, what do you do ? Well, you hit "Delete", or you put some kind of spam filter on it, or you do something else to "send it into the cornfield", as they say.
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| "There is no University of Africa. You are a bad applicant ! Into the corn field !" |
But beyond that, I have been thinking about this issue. Assume you don't immediately "send the translator into the cornfield" of translation applications, how can you determine if your translator is legit ?
Here is a simple point system I devised.
Btw, this assumes you have done some basic research and for instance know what the main translation schools in the world are, etc.
Note that this system is not to ultimately find out about how legit your translator is, but how to - on first impression - decide if the translator is probably legit.
Point system:
Translator has own website as a translator = + 5
Website is well written and looks like it took some time to do = + 5
Website has a good blog about translation = +5
Website has client lists, references, etc. = + 4
Translator went to a known school of translation = +8
Translator's email to you is well written = + 3
Resume looks well written and professional = +2
Translator has some picture of him or her you can see, and it looks ok = + 3
Translator went to a school you have not heard of = 0
Email is poorly written = - 10
No website = - 2
Google search of person's name and "translator" produces nothing = - 8
Google search of person produces negative things = - 8
Translator does not live in western Europe, the US, Canada, NZAUS, etc. = - 3
Translator seems young = - 4
No translation degree = - 3
Claims to translate into more than one language, or into a foreign language = - 4
Translator seems to promise too much and have no limits = - 3
That should help, I hope.
You obviously will want to have some system in place to figure your translator out, but I think this "system" is a good step between the spam / cornfield part and really getting to know your translator.
Actually, this list is great from an agency's perspective. I think that you're correct in listing a poorly written email as -10. Because this is your first introduction to a company, emails should be largely error-free. I absolutely understand that English is not the first language of many translators and I take this into consideration, but, if a translator is offering translation services to or from English, their email should reflect their command of the language.
ReplyDeleteConversely, I would say that a very well written email gives + 3 / 5 points. Too often, our agency receives emails that are full of errors and rather unusual spellings. A well written email stands out.
Thanks, John, I liked your ideas here.
ReplyDeleteBut!
Translator seems young = - 4
What do you mean by that? What is "young" exactly? And why there's something wrong with "young" translators? I'd like to know your opinion on that one!
Because I am getting older, my definition of "young" keeps creeping up. ;-)
DeleteBut seriously, I am not saying that there are no honest or good translators. Remember, this post was about probability and helping agencies use a very "blunt instrument", not a targeted one that takes time. Young and inexperienced to me would be anyone under 30. What I meant was not that there are no good young translators - there are many. What I meant was, who is likely to spam, the 19-year old or 22-year old, or a 48-year old ? The profile of spammers and people just screwing around on the web is generally younger.
Also, translators tend to get better as they age. I know I am better now, than I was at 27.
Also please recall that I wrote "translator SEEMS young". I did not write "translator IS young". If the person seems young to you, it = seems inexperienced. I am taking into account that a 25-year old can seem older, and more experienced, and that a 50-year old could seem young and inexperienced.
DeleteTranslator Alex Eames has a good post about the movie "The Madness of King George", in which the king, having gone mad and come back to his sanity, states, "I had just forgotten how to seem". That is the key. No one knows you on the worldwide web (and do you really even know yourself ?). It is who you present yourself, and how you SEEM to the world that counts. Making sure you seem a certain way is a big part or marketing for any company.
DeleteBtw, some agencies love younger translators for whatever reason, and younger workers have all kinds of advantage over us older ones. Corporations are much more likely to hire you when you are 25, than when you are 45.
Following your logic, someone under 30 practicing translation for, say, 8 years has fewer chances compared to someone around 40, who translates for 2-3 years, right? Isn't it better to use terms of experince not age?
DeleteSo, according to you, for example, a 26-year old translator from the Slovak Republic who is able to translate well into Czech and Slovak gets -11 points only because she is not from "western Europe", "seems young" and "can translate into more than one language"? Something doesn't seem rigt about the system, does it?
ReplyDeleteIs the Slovak Republic in central (western) Europe ? I would argue that it is.
DeleteAnd yes, if you are translating into a foreign language, you get negative points in my system. Almost all translators would agree with that.
Maybe I should add a point that says something like: translating into a language you grew up speaking = 0.
Based on my "system", that 26-year old Slovak can get positive points by having a solid, well-written website, having a blog that is interesting and well-written, having a solid email, and CV, and having references, etc. According to my point system, anyone in the world can compensate for the negatives, with the positives.
DeleteAnd anyway, if an agency needs Slovak, they are not going to really pay much attention to my system anyway. They are just going to call you.
John has a good point here - the list above serves us when we are trying to sift through the piles of resumes that we receive. Adding another 50 translators to a database with no specific reason doesn't really help anyone and so we screen those resumes that come in, adding the best to our database.
DeleteThat being said, if we really need a Slovak translator, we will pay much less attention to the system above.
So what you're saying is who cares about the quality of a Slovak (or other obscure Eastern European language) translation, right?
DeleteQuite an attitude there, sir.
Sorry, but I can’t agree:
Delete1) A (well-written) blog isn't any proof of the quality of the translator. Why? There are several reasons but let’s mention just two of them: a) If the translator has time to write more than two blog posts a week it can also mean he/she has too much time and too little work -> he/she probably isn’t that good. b) What if the blog is written in the language the PM from the agency doesn’t understand, i.e. in Slovak?
2) I don't know if you realize that but Slovakia and the Czech Republic used to be one country until 1993. Czech students studying Czech at Czech universities had to take also an exam in Slovak (and vice versa) and many of them are basically bilingual, so Slovak isn’t a “foreign” language for them. And actually, there are more countries in Europe where you can find bilingual translators/linguists.
3} I don't understand the kind of reverse “ageism” you promote, either. I know quite a few translators 27-30 years old who are way better than their older colleagues – not only linguistically, but also as far as the usage of CAT is concerned (quite a few older translators simply refuse to use any CAT tools).
FIY, Slovakia is a Central European country, not far from Germany ;)
FIY, I'm not Slovak, it was just an example to show your system has some flaws - Emma Goldsmith (below) has expressed it well.
While your point system would filter out a number of translators who aren't remotely legit, I think that many would slip through. Unfortunately, I know of quite a lot of translators who would pass your test with flying colours, but after proofreading their work, I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
ReplyDeleteInteresting way to weed out bad translators, it might work, but I agree with Emma, you never know.
ReplyDeleteSome people objected to my saying that western Europe is more "legit" than other places. But please remember, I am talking about perceptions here, not reality. The truth is that I am probably a bit more "legit" if I say to a German client that I live in Munich, than I would be if I was translating from Florida or Costa Rica, or Kenya. It just is that way. Life is not always "fair". When I used to live in Texas, I seriously believe that my "profile" was slightly different than if I say I am working from inside the EU.
DeleteJohn, I believe that your legitimacy-test list is just a tad slanted. I was born, live and work in Uruguay (my parents were European - my mother emigrated from Berlin BTW - but that's beside the point). My favorite British clients seem to like me well enough in spite of my not living in western EU. Moreover, despite my not being native in English, they have entrusted me time and again with translating extensive content into English. So everything is relative after all, as Einstein contended, and I would say that the foremost legitimacy traits should be a good, or even flawless, command of both source and target languages (in mails and overall communication), having a website and professional mail address, and belonging to professional associations and being demonstrably active in them. I agree that not being too young (i.e., being able to attest to some experience, or a measure of culture at least) could certainly be a plus, in addition to having a degree in translation from an accredited school or university. I don't have a blog, but I have written some articles on translation and have participated in language discussions on several blogs. Also, my work is mainly with direct clients from the private sector who value their privacy and don't want to be listed in a website, so I have abstained from doing that. To cut a long story short, although according to your system I would not get top scores, I do feel that I am more than legit and my work is my main legitimacy indicator.
DeleteMy point is not that - objectively - translators in non-EU nations or nations outside North America are worse translators. That would be folly, to claim that. What I am talking about is *perception*. The truth is, people think locally (even if they "act globally"). Where do you think it is easier to sell a script to Hollywood: from L.A., or from some place outside California ? Do you think it would be easier to sell financial translation in New York, or Vietnam ? What about fashion translation: Italy, or Costa Rica ? What about if you are working from let's say Japanese to English. Easier to sell in Tokyo, or Britain ?
ReplyDeleteThe same applies not just to marketing, but also to things like receiving payment. Do you think it would be easier - if you are a German to English translator - for me to collect from a client here in Munich, or one in, say, eastern Europe ? What about further afield, like India ?
The truth is that people love this image of "the translator who just translates from wherever her laptop is". But I think that the reality is that location still matters.
I find your requirement of a degree in translation rather odd. I would argue that a degree in a real-life subject plus serious experience with the source language is far more important. I have come across many many translators with a degree in translation who then feel that they are the cat's whiskers/bee's knees and then have to ask the most basic questions in the appropriate fora in order to avoid making very stupid mistakes. I find my degree in law and 30 years of living in a German speaking country qualify me far more to translate legal texts (a view corroborated by my large number of lawyer clients) than some degree from a school of translation. I basically distrust any translator who does not have experience of the subject matter.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I echo many of the sentiments. The idea of a point system is valid, and in fact is the basis of many spam filters (search the web for Bayesian spam filtering).
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do question some of the point values.
One feature that I would especially ignore (assign a point value of zero) is the presence or absence of a photo. In the USA, job applicants (or school applicants) are virtually never asked for a photo. In school, a teacher told me, it's so they cannot be accused of racial discrimination if you are not selected. I don't know if that's the real reason, but in any case, I approved -- then and now.
Another consideration would be -- I trust certain people absolutely for certain subjects, but not in others. A very good technical translator might be terrible at legal, for instance.